Triathlon Lane

When does the invest in learning fast flip turns pay off?

Feed 10 posts, 5 voices
Start New Topic Start New Topic

Posted Apr 03, 2011 08:23PM

The title says it all. For a person with limited pool time (2-3 hours per week) I wonder whether it is better to invest the complete pool time in technique and stamina (which can be used for open water races as well) or to cut off some minutes to learn fast flip turns. I assume that turning fast is more important the shorter the pool and the shorter the overall distance is. Or rephrased: Is fast flip turning a technique so important that it should be mastered by every swimmer even an age triatlete?
Posted Apr 03, 2011 08:50PM

Really depends if you'll ever use it in a race. I'd suggest learning to make your 'open turns' as fast as possible as, in my experience, tumbling isn't allowed in pool based triathlons. If you were going to do freestyle pool races then, without a doubt it would be a good idea to master the tumble.
Posted Apr 04, 2011 03:33PM

My swim coach wanted me to learn flip turns because he said it would let me swim more yardage in practices. Now I have certainly not "mastered" them. My flip turns are passable but could certainly use a lot of improvement. But we only spent enough time on it to just get me to be able to do them, not to master them. I haven't really seen that it's let me swim lots more yardage, but I like being able to (sorta) do them.

I'm surprised to hear flip turns not allowed in pool-based triathlons. I've only done triathlons with open water swims, though.

Anyhow, the day I "learned" flip turns was in my "off season" after my last triathlon of 2010. So it was a recovery swim day where I just wanted to play around and do different things that I don't usually get to do in my regular practice swims.
Posted Apr 05, 2011 08:15PM

Thanks for your answers!

@GW: I do want to use flip turns in races althoug the race will be triathlon. I had a look at the rules of German Triathlon Union (DTU) and it is is stated that at least one part of your body has to touch the wall. From that I conclude that flip turns are okay.
@Sheila: I was inspired by your idea just to play around and train the flip since the pool was so crowded today that swimming was more or less pointless -- after been kicked twice.

What would you think how much time can be saved by flip turning? 10%? Or more?
Posted Apr 05, 2011 09:13PM

I'd think the amount of time you save on flip turns vs. open turns would depend on how good your open turns are vs. how good your flip turns are. Certainly you will save only a second or so, or fractions thereof? (Hopefully a swim coach answers this, because I really have no swimming background.)

However, I do know that when my coach has me swim time trials, I do flip turns as fast as I can and it certainly makes me FEEL faster than doing open turns. I know if I goof up one of my turns I'm usually a second or two slower on my times.
Posted Jun 15, 2011 12:48AM

I can't tell a percentage but I've swam since I was fifteen and can easily do 3000 meters per hour in a workout, when I've swam pregnant and couldn't do the flipturns it takes me down closer to 2000 meters in an hour. Enough slower that I do flipturns as long as physically possible.

Posted Jul 04, 2011 08:56PM

Hi,
Beck's answer is really amazing me.
From your answers I conclude that the time invested to learn flip turns pays off fast and mastering them is benficial.
I started practising yesterday.

Thanks.
Posted Jul 10, 2011 12:45AM

Wolfram -

It is unlikely that doing flipturns will increase your hourly volume by 50%. Based on my swimming side-by-sidw with 2 guys who do open turns, I will get maybe 10% more in an hour than they do.

However, there is another reason to consider doing flipturn - increasingly your breathing control (and possibly your aerobic capacity). Doing a flipturn means you have to manage your breathing better and that will be worth something in open water swims.

Good Luck.
Posted Jul 12, 2011 07:18PM

Well, of course I'd like to speed up by 10% only by learning a new technique. But ...
As I do not flip fast enough I get out of breath and that makes me considerably slower than using open turns where I can get as much air that I need. But anyhow I' dertermined to learn the flips.
Another question:
Do you agree that open turns disrupt more flow and rhythm than flip turns do -- even if flips are done at a beginners level?
Posted Jul 12, 2011 07:54PM

Not when done properly. The turn should be seen as a continuation of the final stroke into the wall. Somersault straight forward, plant feet on the wall toes poinitng upwards, push off on your back and then rotate onto your front. No break in forward momentum at all


User_go Please login or signup to post a reply.

Group Voices


More

Underwater Tag Cloud

1650 Aaron Peirsol active drag active recoveryswimming aerobic endurance age-group Amanda Beard anchoring android Android app ascending sendoffs backstroke balance beach reading bilateral breathing birthday swim blueseventy Body Shape bodyline brain training breakout breaststroke breath control breathing Brendan Hansen broken swims butterfly catch challenge set coaches coaching combat side stroke competition crossover turn Cullen Jones Cullen JonesKarlyn Pipes-Neilsen cycle rate Dave Denniston descend set distance per cycle distance training dive dolphin dolphin kick Dominik Meichtry DragSox Drills dryland DVD efficiency eggbeater kick Endless Pools Eric Shanteau Eric Vendt etiquette EVF fatigue feel Finis finish fins fist drill flip turn flip turns flutter kick Fran Crippen freestyle gallop stroke goals goswimtv.com hand entry hand exit head position heart rate hybrid IM inner strength iPhone app Jason Lezak Jeff Rouse Jessica Hardy Kaitlin Sandeno Kara Lynn Joyce Karlyn Pipes-Neilsen Kevin Clements kick kids learn-to-swim long axis strokes loping Margaret Hoelzer masters medball Michael Phelps middle distance Misty Hyman mobile video monofin neural Olympics one-hour swim open turns open water Over training pace pace clock paddles paralympics parents passive drag propulsion pull pulling pulse rates pushoffs pyramid questiontaper race specific training racing recovery relay starts resisted swimming rhythm Robert Margalis Roland Schoeman Roque Santos rotation Sara McLarty science Scott Tucker sculling SEALs shoulders sighting snorkel speed work sprint Staciana Stitts Starts stations Steve Haufler straight arm recovery streaming streamline stretch cord stretching stroke count stroke rate subscription support swim across america swim camps swim fun swim technique swim training swim video swimming Swimming Golf swimming music Swimsense swimsuit taper teaching Tempo Trainer tether timing training Triathlon tuck turn Turns underwater dolpin underwater pull Vasa water poloswimming water temp weights work to rest ratio

Who is GoSwim?

We are a group of swimmers who swim really fast, and like to help others learn how to reach their competitive potential in the area of professional swimming.

Want More GoSwim?

Subscribe to our RSS feed Subscribe to our RSS feed


 
built by devtwo